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Topic Title: The Mass Transit Discussion Thread Topic Summary: This is it people... discuss mass transit here! If you really really have to... Created On: Sep-03-2009 07:18 AM Status: Post and Reply |
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#1598123
Sep-03-2009 07:18 AM
I notice that the phrase "new features like public transport" appears on the CXL website under the planet offer, which is not single player and is the subscription offer. |
Edited: 11/05/2009 at 06:13 PM by Simtropolis Moderator
#1598127
Sep-03-2009 07:46 AM
| yeh, we're all wondering that mate! If you get an answer you will be very lucky  |
#1598136
Sep-03-2009 08:22 AM
| WHAT? No mass transit for off-line players? Even SimCity 2000 offered more options than only bus networks! |
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#1598150
Sep-03-2009 08:59 AM
| I heard the same thing about airports not being at release or even being only as a GEM... Let's wait before making hasty assumptions, shall we? |
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
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#1598159
Sep-03-2009 09:21 AM
| Outrageous, eh? Yeah, let's just wait and see. After all we waited and saw in two years, so let's wait and see for one more month, shall we?  EDIT: Oh, don't bother. Mathew already answered on the beta forum 15 minutes ago: The Planet Offer is what will allow us to sustain further developments for the game and keep our city builder constantly evolving with new features, including additional transport system. So, to answer in a very straightforward manner: yes, public transportation will be part of the content made available for Planet Offer subscribers. Except for the bus system, as it is mentioned as free additional content for everyone on the Cities XL Information web page. |
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Edited: 09/03/2009 at 09:50 AM by gabry85
#1598162
Sep-03-2009 09:34 AM
I heard the same thing about airports not being at release or even being only as a GEM... Let's wait before making hasty assumptions, shall we? But why would they choose to be so specific as to say only a bus system will be released for free after the game comes out? If they were trying to sell their game, and all the other things were also to be included for free at a later date, would it not be in their best interests to advertise that fact?? Why did they feel the need to single out the bus apart from trains, trams, subways, light rail etc? Then, if we take into consideration that according to their website, public transport is to be included as "new features" exclusive to the subscription offer.... That is what is worrying me. This is different from just hearing about something. You can find this info directly on their website, which was finalized only a few days ago, meaning what you read is what you get. It's not a beta site. There really shouldn't be any mysteries at this point. |
Edited: 09/03/2009 at 09:40 AM by Numpty Dumpty
#1598171
Sep-03-2009 09:58 AM
| At least bus transportation is free. That frustrates me that you have to basically pay for Airports, light rail, etc. |
#1598178
Sep-03-2009 10:11 AM
| No, it's really not a good move. They almost built us up and let us down, i know thats kinda a pun considering it's a city building game but it's true. They interacted with the community, they knew what we wanted, they showed us and told us a lot about their game ... And for them to just be like "oh well this feature you really wanted, well you're going to have to pay for that" is kinda a slap in the face to all those who followed the development of this game very closely. I mean i would love to play it like an MMO but I'm a college kid, i don't have the time or money for that! I just feel a bit betrayed. |
#1598183
Sep-03-2009 10:18 AM
| Yeah thats exactly what I mean by "Not the best move". I was looking forward to playing another city builder game, and was really looking forward to train options! |
#1598197
Sep-03-2009 10:40 AM
| A complete joke & big mistake from MC to make customers that have already paid for the game in full pay MORE for mass-transit!!
leaves a dirty taste in my mouth....It's called disgust!! |
#1598217
Sep-03-2009 11:38 AM
maybe they will read this and feel bad 
Thats right i'm talking to you MC. |
#1598219
Sep-03-2009 11:42 AM
WHAT? No mass transit for off-line players? Even SimCity 2000 offered more options than only bus networks! even sim city 1 had more than just buses...... and yeah Cities XL is just turning out to be joke, there is no way I am going to be buying it based on its current state.... |
#1598232
Sep-03-2009 12:34 PM
| I understand them trying to... I guess convince people to buy the game by using incentives like new features. But, mass transportation is such a staple of every city building game that i just don't understand why they chose to remove mass transit over say a new map or a new set of buildings or some of the other things listed on the website. And if they need more time to put it in the game, go ahead i could take a delay, i just want a good city building game. |
#1598240
Sep-03-2009 12:58 PM
| Basic mass transit should be in both games. by basic I refer to the staples: Bus, Light Rail, Subway. I think if those were part of the single player and other types of mass transit were additional to PO then it would have been a better decision. other types being Monorail, elevated rail etc.
I understand they want incentives for the PO but you can't deny the Single player the basics, its just not right. how can anyone build a successful city without mass transit? can you imagine NY without a subway....scary. I will still buy the game though. we all had a lot of hate for SCS and I eventually broke down and gave that a try and did eventually like it (made a CJ for it too). I have gone too long with 2.5D city building graphics. I need full 3D in order to enjoy the experience. hopefully, after time, MC will eventually see the error of their ways and allow other forms for mass transit for single player. |
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#1598246
Sep-03-2009 01:08 PM
| I'm still very unclear how planet offer updates will affect single player offline. Will CXL have some regular game updates like sc4? Will planet offer updates carry over offline, and what if you cancel your subscription? I've learned some things by playing MMOs and being active in their forums I'd like to share: +They don't always tell you what their working on adding to the game unless they're certain it will work, and soon. (Underpromise overdeliver works better than the opposite) +There will never be a perfectly 'balanced' game (we'll see what that means soon enough) and players will demand buffs and nerfs to 'balance' things. (In RPGs a race or class/job might be overpowered, in RTS a race or strategy is OP - in this game I'm guessing there will be imbalance issues with maps/resources/trading/blueprints/strategies and people will cry about it) +People always complain about paying X$/mo. I kind of hope there are forums that are for players with active accounts only. Seriously, how many hours are you going to spend playing thanks to constant new content??? Weigh that against the cost of going to a movie, hanging out in a bar, or going bowling for an equal amount of time. In some cases I wish I could pay more for an MMO if it meant better service/quality. Realize how fortunate you were in SC4. +If the game is 'missing' some things but functions reasonably well it's okay - even if there are glaring things missing (rail). Last but not least: control your expectations - it's called Cities XL not Sim City 5. I'm thrilled to get away from mods, custom content, and plugins...I despise money trees, garbage chutes and demand mods. Fixing my traffic problems is more of a moral dillema than a gaming challange. The reason I'm still playing sc4 is the anticipation of CXL The fact that we want more (and it seems possible that we'll get it) seems like a good thing doesn't it? |
#1598247
Sep-03-2009 01:12 PM
| Just read the news about no Mass transport in the game to and when I read it I just got depressed.
Me was waiting for a new City Building game, that just had that one tool more then SimCity 4 and was not crashing all the time and was free. So, I search, wait and wait and then I saw a beta comming out and I was happy, played a week long non stop. Till the first patch came. Then it just went worse each second. New maps and buildings were still awesome. But, it just went worse. More and more bugs, less caring by the admins, to much crashes and so on, and yeah then. This came! The message that planet offer will cost a minimum of 5.55 a month. The message that public transportation doesn't get free and so on. It just so shocking! In the beginning I really loved the game. The new design looks good to. The music is awesome to. But clearly at one moment, MC turned in EA. EA as in being totally not cared about there members, totally not cared about how much it would cost us and so on. EA as destroying a game that was awesome (Sim City Societies was a total failure, while SC4 was awesome). Mhh, my art will never be exposed now My art what caused me to be the best on school in art class.
The game yeah! I will buy it! Duh I collect games! And yeah! Something let me be loved in the game. But, because MC did this and many other failures. I will wait till it's out for months. When it cost a max of 20 euro. And the planet offer is around 2.50 a month. If they get there, because they will go bankrupt in 1 quarter of year. |
#1598252
Sep-03-2009 01:20 PM
I'm still very unclear how planet offer updates will affect single player offline. Will CXL have some regular game updates like sc4? Will planet offer updates carry over offline, and what if you cancel your subscription? I've learned some things by playing MMOs and being active in their forums I'd like to share: +They don't always tell you what their working on adding to the game unless they're certain it will work, and soon. (Underpromise overdeliver works better than the opposite) +There will never be a perfectly 'balanced' game (we'll see what that means soon enough) and players will demand buffs and nerfs to 'balance' things. (In RPGs a race or class/job might be overpowered, in RTS a race or strategy is OP - in this game I'm guessing there will be imbalance issues with maps/resources/trading/blueprints/strategies and people will cry about it) +People always complain about paying X$/mo. I kind of hope there are forums that are for players with active accounts only. Seriously, how many hours are you going to spend playing thanks to constant new content??? Weigh that against the cost of going to a movie, hanging out in a bar, or going bowling for an equal amount of time. In some cases I wish I could pay more for an MMO if it meant better service/quality. Realize how fortunate you were in SC4. +If the game is 'missing' some things but functions reasonably well it's okay - even if there are glaring things missing (rail). Last but not least: control your expectations - it's called Cities XL not Sim City 5. I'm thrilled to get away from mods, custom content, and plugins...I despise money trees, garbage chutes and demand mods. Fixing my traffic problems is more of a moral dillema than a gaming challange. The reason I'm still playing sc4 is the anticipation of CXL The fact that we want more (and it seems possible that we'll get it) seems like a good thing doesn't it? Even if everything you said is true (though a lot of it is kinda off topic in regards to this issue imo), we are around 7 years on from the last big successful city builder, and core elements like mass transit cant even make it into the game as a basic feature? It's like a new movie theatre opening up, offering better quality visuals, but making you pay extra money just to walk through the doors to the screen you're going to watch, even after you bought a ticket already. It's something we've been doing for soooo long that walking through the cinema screen doors after paying for a ticket is something we exect to come with our overall package, but now it's being being offered as a feature we are going to be charged for. Just doesn't seem right imo. |
#1598262
Sep-03-2009 01:43 PM
Even if everything you said is true (though a lot of it is kinda off topic in regards to this issue imo), we are around 7 years on from the last big successful city builder, and core elements like mass transit cant even make it into the game as a basic feature? It's like a new movie theatre opening up, offering better quality visuals, but making you pay extra money just to walk through the doors to the screen you're going to watch, even after you bought a ticket already. It's something we've been doing for soooo long that walking through the cinema screen doors after paying for a ticket is something we exect to come with our overall package, but now it's being being offered as a feature we are going to be charged for. Just doesn't seem right imo. I think the change from a single player offline game to an online game is vastly underestimated - it's a potentially HUGE difference - that I think SC4 players don't realize. If you play a RTS like age of empires offline and then go online it's a totally different experience, the change in final fantasy online versus previous/post installments was even more extreme. I think understanding how very different online games are than single player, and how they change is really crucial. Frankly, we don't know exactly how this game will change - there's no comparison. |
#1598270
Sep-03-2009 01:49 PM
I'm still very unclear how planet offer updates will affect single player offline. Will CXL have some regular game updates like sc4? Will planet offer updates carry over offline, and what if you cancel your subscription? I've learned some things by playing MMOs and being active in their forums I'd like to share: +They don't always tell you what their working on adding to the game unless they're certain it will work, and soon. (Underpromise overdeliver works better than the opposite) +There will never be a perfectly 'balanced' game (we'll see what that means soon enough) and players will demand buffs and nerfs to 'balance' things. (In RPGs a race or class/job might be overpowered, in RTS a race or strategy is OP - in this game I'm guessing there will be imbalance issues with maps/resources/trading/blueprints/strategies and people will cry about it) +People always complain about paying X$/mo. I kind of hope there are forums that are for players with active accounts only. Seriously, how many hours are you going to spend playing thanks to constant new content??? Weigh that against the cost of going to a movie, hanging out in a bar, or going bowling for an equal amount of time. In some cases I wish I could pay more for an MMO if it meant better service/quality. Realize how fortunate you were in SC4. +If the game is 'missing' some things but functions reasonably well it's okay - even if there are glaring things missing (rail). Last but not least: control your expectations - it's called Cities XL not Sim City 5. I'm thrilled to get away from mods, custom content, and plugins...I despise money trees, garbage chutes and demand mods. Fixing my traffic problems is more of a moral dillema than a gaming challange. The reason I'm still playing sc4 is the anticipation of CXL The fact that we want more (and it seems possible that we'll get it) seems like a good thing doesn't it? Even if everything you said is true (though a lot of it is kinda off topic in regards to this issue imo), we are around 7 years on from the last big successful city builder, and core elements like mass transit cant even make it into the game as a basic feature? It's like a new movie theatre opening up, offering better quality visuals, but making you pay extra money just to walk through the doors to the screen you're going to watch, even after you bought a ticket already. It's something we've been doing for soooo long that walking through the cinema screen doors after paying for a ticket is something we exect to come with our overall package, but now it's being being offered as a feature we are going to be charged for. Just doesn't seem right imo. I agree. You just took the words out of my mouth. It reminds me of Magix Music Maker 2008. Man, that program was too commercial (refering to the features deluxe version about every few minutes), and it annoyed me so much, I brought it back to the store to get my €50,- back. I hope this is not the way MC is going to take... See it this way: - MC announces features of Planet Offer. - People see a lack of features in the Solo Mode. - People report this to the community. - Community gets a bad feeling about the game. - People don't want to buy the game, due the lack of features. - MC recieves less money than expected from sold copies. - MC may come into finacial trouble. - Cities XL could be a flop. But if MC changes direction, it could go this way: - MC announces more features for Solo Mode. - People are getting interrested about the game. - People report this to the community. - Community gets a good feeling about the game. - People want to buy the game. - MC recieves more money than expected from sold copies. - MC can develop Cities XL further, or could develop another game. - Cities XL could be a success. So, what will it be, MC? Best, Maarten |
Maarten's Sign BAT Room - Realistic HD Signage |
#1598272
Sep-03-2009 01:53 PM
I think that MC is trying to market this game as an MMO with a single player mode, and not vice versa. In this way, they can get away with some things, like removing mass transit from a single player game. Just like other MMO's the "real" game is online. I don't know, maybe we have to change our mindset to really get the most out of the game. We're so used to Sim city, a single player game that has been modded so much that it doesn't even resemble the game that was first released how many years ago? The sim city that people play now, the sim city that was released so many yeras ago, and have been playing since they were kids is not what is going be be released on October 9th, 2009. If anything this game doesn't remind me of Sim city, but more of the Anno Series with about 20 less resources  . |
#1598277
Sep-03-2009 02:07 PM
| This is absolutely ridiculous. I refuse to buy a city simulation game that doesn't allow me the basic tools to simulate a city. No city in the world can survive on JUST roads, it just doesn't happen.
Sorry MC, I was really looking forward to this game and might even have subscribed to the planet offer had you included some innovative features into it. As it stands I refuse to pay extra for what should be basic city builder features, and I will not be buying the game. |
#1598280
Sep-03-2009 02:14 PM
Even if everything you said is true (though a lot of it is kinda off topic in regards to this issue imo), we are around 7 years on from the last big successful city builder, and core elements like mass transit cant even make it into the game as a basic feature? It's like a new movie theatre opening up, offering better quality visuals, but making you pay extra money just to walk through the doors to the screen you're going to watch, even after you bought a ticket already. It's something we've been doing for soooo long that walking through the cinema screen doors after paying for a ticket is something we exect to come with our overall package, but now it's being being offered as a feature we are going to be charged for. Just doesn't seem right imo. I think the change from a single player offline game to an online game is vastly underestimated - it's a potentially HUGE difference - that I think SC4 players don't realize. If you play a RTS like age of empires offline and then go online it's a totally different experience, the change in final fantasy online versus previous/post installments was even more extreme. I think understanding how very different online games are than single player, and how they change is really crucial. Frankly, we don't know exactly how this game will change - there's no comparison. You're missing the point though. People buy tickets to watch a movie, to watch a movie, everything else is just an extra. You can still watch a perfectly good movie with no popcorn. The movie doesn't get better with popcorn. Also, a lot of the times, those stalls where you buy popcorn or fast food or whatever are seperate companies that made a deal with the theatre to be able to sell their products there. Whether you buy popcorn or not, everyone comes away being able to say they watched a full length movie, which is the core element, and what they actually paid for. A theatre suddenly adding a "door charge" for something that is supposed to be part of watching any movie in a theatre just doesn't sit right with me. In this game, you buy a city simulator, but to actually be able to use core city building elements like something so simple as placing a train station in your city you have to pay extra. So to liken this to the cinema senario, everyone can buy this game, but unless you pay for elements that allow you to actually play a full city simulator, you're basically not getting a full game. Another thing to remember, is that when people play certain games online, it is not to access features that are not available offline, it is to share the experience with other people. Generally, the features you have access to are the same, just that you are participating with other humans instead of bots. The way other games do things like charging for extra content, is to still give the base package to people, but just give them more of what they already have to provide some variety. In this case it's just you buy half a game, then you get the rest when you subscribe. I can understand buildings etc etc or things that wouldn't be a CORE piece of gameplay being added as an extra, but making a city building sim with no mass transit unless you pay an extra fee is nonsensical. |
#1598281
Sep-03-2009 02:16 PM
| This is a complete let down....Without mass transit,it is,in my opinion,not a real city building game...Gabry,where did Mathew say that in the beta forums?I can't find it |
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#1598293
Sep-03-2009 02:55 PM
| its not a city builder game......it just has elements in it that they hope will attract some of the city builder fans. they know they cannot compete with SC4, so why even try? hence the MMO genre.....their only hope was to pull some of this community to spur sales, but drastically underestimated what we wanted. the company i am employed by has a problem with releasing product before its ready, because this is ultimately about money....so i've seen this behavior up close and personal. the problem becomes, if they dont meet their sales numbers, then they have to trim costs. wanna venture a guess how much it'll cost to run this server system for PO?
CXL is closer to SCS than SC4.....so if you want a real city builder, you'll be waiting for an awfully long time. but not everyone wants a true city builder, so they do have a target market. their only real mistake was to first try and market the game to hardcore city-builder fans. |
#1598309
Sep-03-2009 03:25 PM
| It is possible that these extras might be for free, the menu is prepared for rail so it is possible, however if its not free... that is really going against what theyve been saying the whole time. I do know that they are still working with these things and am almost certain that they will release mass transit, this whole debate is whether we should pay extra for something that should be released with the game and is such a basic and important component. I do know between monthly play rates to GEM's to extra releases, im soon going to be bankrupt |
#1598323
Sep-03-2009 03:52 PM
| Well, there went the dream of the next Simcity Killer game out the door. Sorry, not interested in paying to get the basic features that the game should have included in it.
It also makes me wonder just where modding stands for the game. Im going to go out on a limb here and say very very limited if any, else people would design their own mass transportation and ignore the PO offer too which wouldn't make any sence so it would seem we will be at the mercy of MC for the content in the game. I think if they are really depending on the PO to give them the funds to continue to improve the game then it's not going to be improved a whole lot as I don't suspect many city building gamers are going to go for the PO offer once they realize that offline they will be playing a watered down featureless game. Strange how every other developer depends on expansions being sold through retail outlets to further develop their titles, but MC thinks it has some sort of winner here iwth the PO. Sorry, in my opinion it's far from a winner. Originally, I thought they released the demo in it's current condition (unfinished, heck theres even tool tips that say gibberish like &instance_included etc) so as to force the publishers to give them more time to complete the game by the negative feedback they will surely get from the demo, however now I don't understand why they would release this demo at all, it's really not a good selling point for the game, other than to be able to claim that it only holds about 10% of the total content of the full game, which would lead many people to believe that all the mass transportation and other goodies they may still strip out of the singleplayer game will be included in that other 90%. Shameful, just shameful. |
#1598333
Sep-03-2009 04:17 PM
What MC needs to focus on is providing a complete, fulfilling, and free single player mode. Once they do that, people will start to consider paying for a few more features. MC is trying to do it the opposite way, and coming off as a money grubbing company. Luckily for us, MC still has time. All's they need to do is change a few variables (allowElevatedRail = 1  ), and bam the community is happy(or, happier than before). Another thing is that MC follows this community, i mean didn't dirk go play their game at the actual studio? It's rare to see a company get involved in a fan site like MC has. The problem with that is it feels like their not listening to us (at least right now). Another reason why this is such a make or break thing for this game is that people: 1. Don't want to spend all of their money, especially if they don't have any to spend. 2. Rush hour was the first and last expansion for SC4, and it focused on Mass transit. So, if there was anything that we got used to while playing SC4, it was plenty of mass transit options. MC is trying to make us pay for something that we take for granted. Also, i couldn't have said it better myself mrtnrln, this is a huge turning point, and they have a choice to make. |
Edited: 09/03/2009 at 04:29 PM by geek12
#1598337
Sep-03-2009 04:22 PM
maybe they will read this and feel bad Thats right i'm talking to you MC. I doubt that they'll feel bad for it. MC are the most greedy company i've ever seen, they don't care. They've developed a game without a fanbase. They've alienated the City-builders and the MMO communities doesn't seem to be too interested in the game. |
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