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Topic Title: "Lisbon II" Topic Summary: Ireland goes to the polls on the Treaty of Lisbon, again. Created On: Oct-02-2009 07:43 AM Status: Post and Reply |
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| Back in June 2008, Ireland rejected a constitutional amendment referendum which would allow the country to ratify the Treaty of Lisbon, the newest EU "reform" treaty (aimed at making the union more efficient and democratic). There were many reasons, including fears (mostly unfounded) on tax rates, social issues and neutrality; although one of the main ones was general ignorance and an intention by many to "get back" at the government. Now, though, Ireland has been given legally binding guarantees on all of the issues and has been guaranteed (along with every other EU member) the right to keep a commissioner. This, along with the recession has changed a lot in the country which goes to the polls again today (2 October) to vote on the same amendment. All major opinion polls have shown the "yes" side with a comfortable majority, although they also did this the last time. On the "yes" side are all major mainstream political parties (Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Labour, Green Party), major trade unions, some corporations (Intel Ireland, Ryanair) and groups such as "Ireland for Europe" and "The Liberals". The "no" side is made up (mostly) of fringe-groups, such as far-left/radical parties (Sinn Féin, Socialists, Workers' Party), Libertas (a group set up to lobby for a "no" vote the last time), a deeply conservative/Catholic organisation (Cóir, apparently a front group for the violently pro-life "Youth Defence") and other groups such as the "People's Movement" and "Peace and Neutrality Alliance". RTÉ News The Irish Times Voting closes in Lisbon ReferendumFriday, 2 October 2009 22:01Polling in the second Lisbon Referendum is due to finish around now. Early indications suggest that turnout may be slightly up on the first Lisbon vote. More than 3m people were eligible to vote in the referendum. Polling stations around Ireland opened at 7am and closed tonight at 10pm. Turnout was reported to be high in Dublin but voting was said to be slow in other parts of the country, especially compared to last year's vote. Many polling stations reported a late surge this evening before polls closed. Dublin South West, which returned the highest No vote in the country in the last referendum, had recorded the biggest turnout in the Dublin county area by 5pm. Dun Laoghaire, which recorded the biggest Yes vote, had a turnout of 29.5%. In the province of Leinster the real voting in this referendum began this evening. Four of the ten constituencies there have a substantial number of commuters to the capital every day - that meant the turnout in Kildare, Meath, Louth and Wicklow struggled early on. It was a different story in the rural constituencies of Carlow, Kilkenny, Laois-Offaly, Longford-Westmeath and Wexford, where the average turnout was to 30% in the early evening. In the west, voting in Galway city picked up as people finished work, while parts of Connemara in Galway West reported turnout of between 20 - 25%. Rural Mayo saw a turnout of around 20%, with urban areas slightly higher at around 27%, although still lower than last year. Southern constituencies were reporting a turnout of greater than 30% by 6pm and many expected a surge later this evening. In the first Lisbon Treaty referendum, the 12 constituencies that make up the South Euro constituency - Munster without Clare - had a turnout just under 54%. Leaders cast their votes Among the first to vote was President Mary McAleese, who cast her ballot in St Mary's Hospital in the Phoenix Park. The Taoiseach, joined by his wife Mary, cast his vote at Mucklagh National School Co Offaly this morning. There were a number of members of national and international press present. Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny cast his vote at 9.15am in his home town of Castlebar, while Labour leader Eamon Gilmore cast his ballot in Scoil Mhuire on Shanganagh Road in Shankill. Sinn Féin's Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin cast his vote at St Patrick's Hall in Monaghan town this morning. Socialist Party MEP for Dublin Joe Higgins was in Huntstown School in Mulhuddart, while Libertas leader Declan Ganley, accompanied by his family, cast his ballot at Brierfield National School in Tuam in Co Galway. Counting of votes will begin at 9am tomorrow. Story from RTÉ News: Overall, it's been interesting watching the campaign on both sides. The posters, the arguments, the debates, the journalists from all over the world wandering the streets for interviews... I've also managed to get my way into the referendum count tomorrow, so that should be interesting. ![]() Here's a small sample of the posters: ![]() The €1.84 minimum wage (currently it's €8.65) is untrue... ![]() |
| Much of the NO campaign relies on lies and hyperbole, so the wage aspect does not surprise me. |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
| Even still, the "They won your freedom - don't throw it away" poster really hits home with me. For two reasons. One, being American, you know I love that sort of rhetoric. Two, I am, this semester, taking an English elective by the name of Irish Literary Revival - where we're reading all sorts of nationalist writings and discussing those themes and the history there. So I see the argument from that perspective. |
![]() Rank: super fighting robot. Mission: fiiiighting to saaave.... the world! Who wants a cookie? Take one! Cookie Cookie Cookie Cookie Cookie Cookie Only the special awesome people can read this. |
| The perspective is flawed though. The Treaty does not impact on Irish freedom whatsoever. I advise you to actually go and read the Treaty. Scare tactics based on unfounded bull is all the NO campaign have The main reason why they voted no last time is becuase the Treaty was not fully explained. Tthe Treaty has not been changed, it has simply been made clearer, in addition to Irish people being assured that important issues remains wholly Irish. Since that has been made clear, it has been disclosed that the NO campaign based their rambling on wholly groundless 'facts' |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
| In related news, the Constitutional Court of the Czech Republic has decided that the Czech president will not be allowed to ratify the treaty until the court has ruled on the complaints of several senators about the treaty. Even still, the "They won your freedom - don't throw it away" poster really hits home with me. For two reasons. One, being American, you know I love that sort of rhetoric. agrees. |
For life is quite absurd, And death's the final word. You must always face the curtain with a bow! Forget about your sin -- give the audience a grin, Enjoy it, it's your last chance anyhow! ![]() |
| I found the "They won your freedom" posters disgusting. I find using the leaders of the 1916 Rising in such a manner actually sickening. Sinn Féin posters are similarly ridiculous, with pictures of tanks. Libertas have been relying on pictures of children with bright, sad (and photoshopped to add more colour) eyes with the slogan "Irish independence 1922 - 2009?" These posters are enough to show that the 'No' side simply has no logical argument. |
I found the "They won your freedom" posters disgusting. I find using the leaders of the 1916 Rising in such a manner actually sickening. I agree, but it's Cóir. They've done much worse in fairness... I mean leaflets with pictures of aborted foetuses on them? I also heard of a disabled person asking a Cóir campaigner (on the street) if euthanasia would be brought in by the EU to "deal" with them, the campaigner replied "the EU would simply have aborted you." (or something to that effect) ![]() The "no" side is made up of groups/parties that have little to no electoral support, yet they have a disproportionate amount of influence. |
| Indeed their tactics have been utterly ridiculous. That and UKIP getting involved has only furthered the debacle of the NO Campaign. |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
| I hope you understand, aontan (and any other Irish), that if any of you vote no, I will ban you from this website. Just a little incentive.
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![]() Some people get kicks out of causing arguments. Its a primitive human impulse that evolution hasn't quite corrected yet... ...now with 57% less awesome! (possibly 100% however we cannot guarantee the accuracy of this statement.) If You Wish To Make; An Apple Pie From Scratch ... You Must First Invent; The Universe
Nightlight troubles? Dependency Issues? Brown boxes? Read This
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| Well, the polls have closed now, so all that's left to do is wait for the results to roll in... |
The count is under way now...Lisbon Referendum count under waySaturday, 3 October 2009 09:52Early indications from count centres around the country suggest that the Lisbon Treaty will be carried. Count staff started opening ballot boxes just over an hour ago, and the sorting of votes is well under way. No votes have actually been counted yet but as the ballot papers are sorted, a clear picture is starting to emerge from tallies, which is showing a decisive swing to the Yes side. The first partial tally came from the constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny - which was exactly 50-50 in the first Lisbon Referendum, but is now said to be running two or three to one in favour of the Treaty. Indications from other constituencies appear to be the same - the Yes vote is reported to be up everywhere. The counting of the votes in the second Lisbon referendum began at 9am. A good indication of the likely result is expected around lunchtime and a final result is expected around 5pm. Fine Gael has claimed that its exit poll shows there has been strong support for the Treaty. The party questioned a representative sample of 1,000 voters in 33 locations around the country. The party's director of elections, Billy Timmons, said the indications were good for the Yes side: with most of the results processed, the Fine Gael poll shows the Yes side ahead by 60% to 40%. After 15 hours of polling, the indications are that the turnout may be slightly up on last year. Polling stations were open yesterday from 7am to 10pm, and early indications suggested that more than half of the three million citizens eligible to vote had done so. Returning officers in Munster and in Dublin said turnout was higher than in last year's first Lisbon Referendum, although in Leinster it was reported to be down. EU eagerly awaits results Leaders from the European Union's 27 nations are anxiously awaiting the result of the Irish referendum. Irish voters rejected the EU reform treaty last year, and a second No vote could derail the accords which have been painstakingly crafted through years of negotiation. Ireland is the only EU country constitutionally obliged to put the treaty to a referendum. Poland and the Czech Republic are the only other countries that have yet to ratify the Lisbon Treaty. There has been sustained interest in Europe in the result of the Irish referendum, with an awareness across capitals that the Lisbon Treaty will stand or fall on the Irish vote. In Brussels at the home of the European institutions, and the focus of the eight years of painstaking negotiations that led to Lisbon, officials have been in a state of some anxiety. If Lisbon comes into force the first step will be the appointment of the 27 member European Commission. The national capitals will then propose the first full time president of the European Council, the body representing member states, as well as it new foreign affairs representative. The new double-majority voting system will not come into effect until 2014. If Lisbon is rejected, than Europe will continue under the Nice Treaty, but after eight years of negotiations it will appear that Europe is simply incapable of reforming itself, and the EU will be in crisis. Some parts of Lisbon could technically be applied to upcoming accession treaties, or a core group of states may forge ahead in a two-tier Europe, but both these options are legally and politically fraught with problems. Story from RTÉ News: |
Live - Lisbon Referendum CountSaturday, 03 October, 2009(1.46pm) Minister for Health Mary Harney said the scale of the Yes vote is remarkable. She said the vote will play a part in the economic recovery. (1.43pm) Voters in Dublin West have voted Yes by 68.5% to 31.5%. (1.40pm) Two more Yes votes in Cavan-Monaghan (62:38) and Kerry North (64:36). Both voted No in 2008. (1.37pm) European Commission President José Manuel Barroso says the result 'shows the value of European solidarity'. UKIP leader Nigel Farage, who called for a No vote, compared the referendum to a corrupt election in Zimbabwe or Afghanistan. (1.35pm) With nine constituencies in, the overall picture is 64.8% Yes and 35.2% No. (1.34pm) Voters in Sligo-North Leitrim have approved the treaty by 64.45% to No 35.55%. (1.33pm) Click here for details on the results as they emerge. (1.32pm) Cork South Central has voted in favour of the treaty by 66.85% to 33.15%. (1.30pm) Dublin Mid-West has voted Yes by 61.49% to 38.51%. (1.29pm) Check our latest video clips here (1.27pm) There has been a strong Yes vote in Waterford. A total of 68.53% (30,744) voted Yes and 31.47% (14,116) voted No. There was a 22.85% swing to the Yes side. Minister Martin Cullen said he was delighted with what was a very good result for the country and for Europe. (1.23pm) Donegal South West has voted No. The margin of victory was just 171 votes. 50.27% (15,794) voted against the treaty and 49.73% (15,623) voted in favour. (1.20pm) Tipperary North has followed its neighbour in approving the treaty. A total of 70.38% (25,768) voted Yes and 29.62% (10,846) voted No. It represented a swing of 20.58%. Turnout was 52%. (1.17pm) IBEC Director General Danny McCoy said: 'The vote will lead to an EU that is better able to face the challenges ahead and reaffirms Ireland's long-standing, positive and constructive role in Europe. Today's decision is good for Ireland and good for Europe.' (1.15pm) Labour leader Eamon Gilmore has said no-one in the Yes camp had contemplated such a large margin. (1.13pm) In Donegal South West there could be as little as 200 votes between the No and the Yes sides. (1.10pm) Donegal North East has rejected the Lisbon Treaty. 51.46% (15,005) voted No and 48.54% (14,156) voted Yes. There was a swing to the Yes side of 13.24%. (1.03pm) Click here for details on the results as they emerge. (1.01pm) Kildare North has recorded a Yes vote. A total of 76.19% (32,012) voted Yes and 23.81% (10,002) voted No. The constituency voted Yes in 2008, but the margin increased by 21.57%. (12:59pm) Campaign Director of Ireland for Europe Pat Cox said: 'This was a mature vote in which the Irish people rejected those voices telling them to make the referendum a verdict on the government and on national policies.' Mr Cox was President of the European Parliament from 2002-2004. (12.55pm) Dublin Central seems to have swung to a 61:39 Yes vote this year. (12.53pm) The treaty looks set to be carried in Mayo, with tallies indicating a 62:38 vote for Yes, which is a reversal of 2008. (12.45pm) Tipperary South is the first result in. 68.42% (22,712) voted Yes, while 31.58% (10,483) voted No. The change since 2008 is 21.63%. There were 184 spoiled votes. (12.43pm) Only ten of the 43 constituencies voted in favour of Lisbon in 2008. However, this time there will be a majority in nearly every constituency. (12.37pm) Donegal TD Niall Blaney has said the strong No vote in Donegal North East was disappointing, although there had been a significant shift to the Yes side. (12.33pm) More good news for Taoiseach Brian Cowen is that the Yes vote has increased 16% in Laois-Offaly this year. The Yes vote in Offaly, Mr Cowen's county, is 75.6%. The Yes vote in Laois is 66.87%. (12.29pm) Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said: 'It is an important victory for Ireland and for all of Europe.' Mr Bildt, whose country holds the EU presidency, said that it was just a matter of time until the union can 'finally can push the button for the better European cooperation that the Lisbon Treaty will give us'. (12.27pm) Tallies indicate a 60:40 Yes vote in both Galway constituencies. All boxes have been opened. (12.24pm) In Cork South West, all 140 boxes are open and a formal count is under way. Tallies indicate a 60:40 Yes vote. (12.22pm) Socialist MEP Joe Higgins has said the Finance Minister is already rowing back on the promise that a Yes vote would mean jobs and economic recovery. (12.18pm) Anti-Lisbon campaigner Richard Boyd Barrett said: 'I don't think it means a surge of support for the Government. I think the Government have a lot to live up to suggesting passing Lisbon would deliver jobs and economic recovery.' (12.16pm) Several voters were hoping for divine intervention, as another two miraculous medals were found wrapped inside two ballot papers marked Yes from Ballyfin in Co Laois. (12.12pm) In Louth, the constituency of Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern, the treaty is expected to be carried by 58:42. However, there was a strong No vote in urban, working class areas. (12.10pm) RTÉ's Europe Editor Sean Whelan has said there will be an audible sigh of relief in Brussels, but there is a sense of anti-climax at Dublin Castle as the mass ranks of the media had expected a closer race. (12.06pm) For more detailed information on tallies click here (12.03pm) Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore welcomed the 'sensible decision' of the Irish public. (12pm) Tánaiste Mary Coughlan said: 'I would still be very cautious at this stage. It's very close to call. A lot more people changed their minds this time round. There was greater clarity and we had a very good Yes campaign here in Donegal South West.' (11.58am) Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan said there was a 'national cohesion behind the Yes vote'. He added: 'The Government is not engaged in any celebratory parties. We are in a very difficult place (economically) and that's precisely why people have voted Yes.' (11.57am) Declan Ganley told Marian Finucane that Dick Roche had played a blinder in the campaign because he had stayed out of the public eye. Mr Roche responded by saying that if RTÉ got out of Dublin 4, it would have found him out and about around the country. (11.55am) David McCullagh reports that only Donegal North East looks like voting No. Turnout was 50%, but a official result is not expected until 2.30pm. (11.52am) A miraculous medal and a driving licence turned up in boxes in Meath West, where early predictions are that a Yes vote will be carried. (11.47am) Turnout was up 5% on last time in Limerick East. There is still a high No vote in working class areas of the city, where the No vote was as high as 70%. (11.45am) Tallies indicate a strong Yes vote in South Roscommon, which is the home land of Minister Michael Finneran. Some boxes were as high as 90% Yes. (11.43am) Former Danish MEP Jens Peter Bonde, who had campaigned for a No Vote, said: 'Friday 2 October 2009 will be seen as a sad day in European history.' (11.41am) For more detailed information on tallies click here (11.40am) Patricia McKenna of the People's Movement said: 'Today's result was inevitable. People voted not for the Lisbon Treaty but for economic recovery, jobs and EU membership.' (11.38am) In Dublin North Central, tallys indicate that it will be 60:40 Yes, as opposed to 60:40 No last time. (11.34am) Sinn Féin's Vice President Mary Lou McDonald told Marian Finucane that Fine Gael and Labour had helped to secure the Taoiseach in office for another three years. (11.29am) All boxes are opened in Kerry North and tallies are indicating a 60:40 margin in favour of the Yes side. Turnout was 50%. Sinn Féin TD for North Kerry Martin Ferris said the campaign run by Yes side put fear into voters and had a huge effect. (11.27am) Declan Ganley has told Bryan Dobson that he will take time to reflect upon his political future. He said he received a text message this morning from a Fine Gael 'operative' telling him to 'go quietly'. (11.25am) Tallies from Dublin South West indicate a clear Yes vote with 60% of boxes open. The constituency had the highest No vote in 2008. (11.20am) Declan Ganley said the country had 'made a mistake', but he paid tribute to the Taoiseach's 'excellent' campaign, which he said had made 'vassals' of the Opposition. (11.17am) Minister for European Affairs Dick Roche said: 'I am confident it will be carried by close to two-to-one nationally. It is overwhelming.' (11.14am) In Donegal North East, tallies suggest a big swing to the Yes side. The No vote was 64.7% in the first referendum. (11.08am) Click on the RTÉ player on the top of this page for the first of RTÉ News' three Lisbon Specials. (11.05am) Libertas leader Declan Ganley has said the result marks a 'very convincing win' for the Yes camp. He added: ' (10.58am) Early tallies in Dublin South West are indicating a Yes vote. The constituency had the highest No vote in 2008 with 65.1% opposing the treaty. (10.52am) Fine Gael's Lucinda Creighton said there was a comfort in voting No in 2008 because of the fear created by anti-Lisbon campaigners. (10.48am) The minister also found the time to praise Sean O'Rourke for his award for Best News Broadcaster at PPI Radio awards. (10.45am) Micheál Martin has said the 'information deficit and knowledge gap' was a key reason Ireland voted No in 2008. However, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin rejected that. (10.36am) Sinn Fein's Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin said there was no doubt that a lot of fear had been engendered as to the consequences of voting No. (10.33am) RTÉ's David McCullagh said a No vote would have been 'absolutely catastrophic for the Government'. (10.30am) Libertas leader Declan Ganley will make a statement at the RDS count centre at 11am. (10.25) Socialist Party MEP Joe Higgins said that if the treaty is passed it will make it 1-1 and he joked that 'there should be a replay'. (10.23am) Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin has said it looks like it will be a Yes vote and that this will be good for Ireland. He said: 'I am delighted for the country. It looks like a convincing win for the 'Yes' side on this occasion.' (10.20am) The tradition of spoiling votes is still strong, with one voter in Tipperary South asking 'what part of no do you not understand?' (10.18am) Anti-Lisbon campaigner Richard Greene of Cóir has conceded that if tallies from around the country are accurate the treaty will be carried. (10.15am) 90% of boxes have been opened in Dublin South. It had a Yes vote of 62.9% last time out. (10.10am) In Dún Laoghaire, which had the highest Yes vote in 2008, 17% of boxes have been opened. (10am) There are early tallies in for 22 of the 43 constituencies, but as Sean O'Rourke has said on RTÉ Radio One 'tallies are incomplete and unscientific'. (9.57am) 20% of boxes have been opened in the key constituencies of Donegal South West and Donegal North East. (9.52am) RTÉ's Political Correspondent David McCullagh is reporting that early indications from count centres around the country suggest that the Lisbon Treaty will be carried. (9.50am) Up to 30% of the boxes have been opened in Clare and a result is expected there at 1pm. 5% of boxes have been opened in Dublin North East and 3% in Dublin North West. (9.45am) 3% of boxes have been opened in Waterford. A result is expected at 12.30pm. (9.35am) An early tally received from Carlow-Kilkenny is indicating a strong Yes vote. 15% of boxes have been opened. (9am) The count is on. Remember, RTÉ Radio coverage begins at 10am. RTÉ News's first Lisbon Special starts at 11am. (8.40am) Just 20 minutes to go until the counting of votes gets under way. (8.30am) When polling closed last night the indications were that the turnout was slightly up on the first Lisbon referendum. Fine Gael says an exit poll that it carried out shows there has been strong support for the Lisbon Treaty this time out. (8am) Welcome to our live text commentary on a day which will decide if Ireland has voted for the Lisbon Treaty, or rejected it for a second time. |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
Mr Bruton said: 'This is a huge relief. Now the way is clear to get on with the real work of restoring the lost dynamism of the shared economy of Europe and Ireland.' (3.40pm) Dublin South Central (57.97%), Cork East (66.10%) and Wicklow (70.75%) all return Yes votes. (3.38pm) RTÉ's David McCullagh says that with just five constituencies left to declare, the passing of the treaty is beyond doubt, even if every voter in all five remaining constituencies voted No. (3.37pm) Patricia McKenna said: 'Fears and insecurities of voters were skilfully tapped into by an illegally over-funded Yes campaign.' (3.35pm)
The Cork South West (67.17%) and Cork North West (69.53%) constituencies vote Yes. (3.28pm) Two more Yes votes in the Taoiseach's home patch of Laois-Offaly (73.17%) and Roscommon-South Leitrim (65.97%). (3.25pm) Serbian Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremic has hailed the result and said EU hopefuls in the western Balkans would also benefit from it. Mr Jeremic said the treaty 'has opened doors to Europe that will have space for all European nations, including those from the western Balkans.' He added: 'I believe that we all have reason to be happy for the success of the Irish referendum and to get down to fulfilling all criteria for EU membership with even more energy.' (3.19pm) José Manuel Barroso, who was a wearing a green tie for the occasion, told RTÉ's Europe Correspondent Tony Connelly that he hopes the treaty can be fully ratified in the near future. (3.17pm) British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said: 'I welcome the decision of the Irish people on the Lisbon Treaty. 'The treaty is good for the UK and good for Europe. We can now work together to focus on the issues that matter most to Europeans: a sustained economic recovery, security, tackling global poverty, and action on climate change.' (3.15pm) Czech President Vaclav Klaus has declined to say if he will sign the Lisbon Treaty after a constitutional court review. (3.10pm) The American Chamber of Commerce in Ireland and Women for Europe have both welcomed the result. (3.07pm) Two more Yes votes on opposite sides of the country in Dublin North East (63.46%) and Galway West (66.34%). (3pm) 69.72% of voters in Kildare North have voted in favour of the treaty. (2.58pm) With 29 of 43 counts completed, the Yes vote is at 67.1%. (2.52pm) There has been a 23.41% swing in Mayo as 61.71% of the constituency voted Yes. That Yes figure is identical to the No figure in 2008. (2.50pm) Meath East votes in favour by 72.31% to 27.69%. (2.47pm) Click here for details on the results as they emerge. (2.43pm) The people of Wexford have voted in favour by 65.20% to 34.80%. (2.41pm) Following this result, it is now up to the Czech Republic and Poland to officially ratify the Lisbon Treaty. (2.40pm) As the Taoiseach speaks at Government Buildings, two more Yes votes emerge in Louth and Dublin Central. (2.37pm) Taoiseach Brian Cowen has formally declared victory for the Yes side in the Lisbon Treaty referendum. Mr Cowen said the vote was a 'declaration of intent to remain at the heart of Europe'. He added that it would bring about 'a stronger and fairer Ireland and Europe'. (2.35pm)
Dublin North West votes Yes by 55.04% to 44.96%. Galway East also votes in favour of the treaty by 68.11% to 31.89%. (2.32pm) Tánaiste Mary Coughlan said: 'Nationally we are delighted. I just spoke to the Taoiseach and we are very pleased it's going to be won.' (2.31pm) The result for Limerick East shows a Yes vote of 67.41%. (2.28pm) Dublin North votes Yes by 72.68% to No 27.32%, as does Dublin South West by a tighter margin of 58.91% to 41.09%. Dublin South West had the highest No vote in 2008. (2.23pm) Meath West votes Yes by 64.88% to 35.12% and Limerick West does likewise by 69.32% to 30.68%. (2.18pm) Dublin South East has followed other constituencies in the capital by voting Yes by 78.67% to 21.33%. (2.16pm) Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea has said there would have been devastating consequences for the Government had there been a defeat a second time. (2.12pm) Two more strong Yes votes in Dún Laoghaire and Kerry South. The margin in Dún Laoghaire was 81.17% to 18.83%, while in Kerry South it was 63.58% to 36.42%. Fianna Fáil TD Kerry North Tom McEllstrim said there was a big swing from the No side to the Yes side because of the economic difficulty that Ireland found itself in. (2.10pm) There has been a resounding Yes in Dublin South, with 81.67% voting in favour and only 18.33% against. (2.07pm) RTÉ's Southern Editor has said today could be renamed 'Swing Saturday'. (2.05pm) Clare has voted Yes by 72.32% to 27.68%. (1.59pm) The joy of being chosen as the Best News Broadcaster is starting to get to Sean O'Rourke, as he has called himself Rachael English twice today. (1.58pm) IFA President Padraig Walshe has welcomed the Yes vote and thanked farm families for turning out in large numbers to contribute to the result. (1.57pm) Click here for details on the results as they emerge. (1.54pm) The prime minister of Sweden, holder of the EU presidency, said he would meet the Czech Prime Minister and European Commission President on Wednesday to discuss the way forward on the treaty. Fredrik Reinfeldt said: 'Today is a good day for Europe. It has been a long journey. Now the presidency will be active to reach all the way.' (1.52pm) Cork North Central has voted for the treaty by 55.81% to 44.19%. The constituency voted No in 2008 and there was a swing to the Yes side of 20.25%. |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
Ireland backs EU's Lisbon Treaty
Results so far show a clear swing to the "Yes" camp
Irish voters have strongly endorsed the Lisbon Treaty, which is aimed at streamlining decision-making in the 27-member European Union. Official results showed 67% of the electorate voted "Yes". Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen hailed a "clear and resounding" endorsement. The EU Commission called it a "vote of confidence" in the EU. Nearly all the EU states have ratified Lisbon. It came 16 months after the first Irish vote, which rejected the Treaty.
It cannot take effect unless all member states ratify it. The only other countries yet to ratify Lisbon are the Czech Republic and Poland. But the parliaments of both countries have approved the treaty. "The Irish people have spoken with a clear and resounding voice," Mr Cowen said in a brief statement to reporters. "It is a good day for Ireland and a good day for Europe." "The Irish people showed an Ireland embracing her future with Europe," he said.
Ireland was the only EU member state to hold a referendum on Lisbon, though there have been calls for referendums in several countries. The leader of the anti-Lisbon lobby group Libertas, Declan Ganley, said the result marked a "very convincing win" for the "Yes" camp. Counting started at centres across the country at 0900 (0800 GMT) and results are being relayed to the national count centre in Dublin Castle. EU hails 'victory' Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt, whose country currently holds the EU presidency, called the vote "an important victory for Ireland and for all of Europe". He said it was just a matter of time until the EU "finally can push the button for the better European co-operation that the Lisbon Treaty will give us". Brian Cowen: "The Irish have supported reforms so the EU can become more efficient and more effective" The European Commission President, Jose Manuel Barroso, praised the Irish "vote of confidence" in the EU, which he said showed a "desire to be a wholehearted member". The Czech Republic's Eurosceptic President, Vaclav Klaus, said he would not sign the treaty until his country's Constitutional Court had pronounced on its validity. Irish opinion is thought to have swung behind the "Yes" vote this time because of the severity of the economic downturn, as well as the legal "guarantees" on Irish sovereignty that the EU pledged after the first referendum. The legally binding "guarantees" state that Lisbon will not affect key areas of Irish sovereignty, such as taxation, military neutrality and family matters such as abortion - significant issues in last year's campaign in Ireland. But they have not yet been attached to the treaty. The treaty is intended to make EU institutions better suited to the enlarged bloc of 27. Declan Ganley: "Politically a masterful campaign" Opponents see Lisbon as part of a federalist agenda that threatens national sovereignty. In last year's vote, 46.6% of Irish voted "Yes" and 53.4% "No", and the rejection of the treaty plunged the EU into political gridlock. The Irish anti-Lisbon group Coir said on Saturday: "We are extremely disappointed that the voice of the people was not heard the first time around." Three million people were eligible to vote in the referendum. Turnout was higher than 50% when polling stations closed at 2200 on Friday. All of the republic's major parties campaigned for a "Yes" vote except the nationalist Sinn Fein. The party believes rejecting the treaty would mean a more democratic EU. Ireland EU Yes vote 'good for UK'
UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown has welcomed the "Yes" vote on the EU's Lisbon Treaty in the Republic of Ireland referendum. Mr Brown said the treaty was "good for the UK and good for Europe". David Cameron will now face pressure to say if a Tory government would hold a referendum if the treaty is in force. The Irish electorate produced a 67.1% "Yes" vote, leaving only Poland and the Czech Republic to sign the treaty aimed at streamlining EU institutions. In a statement, Mr Brown said: "I welcome the decision of the Irish people on the Lisbon Treaty. "The treaty is good for the UK and good for Europe. We can now work together to focus on the issues that matter most to Europeans - a sustained economic recovery, security, tackling global poverty, and action on climate change." 'Potential divisions' The Conservative leader has previously said a Tory government would call a referendum if the treaty has not been ratified by all 27 EU countries. Poland is expected to sign within days, while there is a legal challenge against the treaty in the Czech Republic. Both countries' parliaments have approved the treaty. A poll of 2,205 Conservative Party members, for the Independent newspaper, found more than eight out of 10 wanted a referendum even if Lisbon is ratified. The Conservativehome.com survey found 55% would want a referendum to "renegotiate EU position", while 29% would want Lisbon declared illegitimate and a referendum on opting out. "The findings suggest that the damaging divisions on Europe which destabilised the last Tory government could resurface at the party's annual conference in Manchester," the newspaper suggests. |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
| While Ireland approved the Lisbon amendment 67.1 % to 32.9 %, the UKIP slams 'corrupt' Lisbon vote and compares it to Afghanistan or Zimbabwe. Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Indpendence Party (which generally advocates less foreign interference, though apparently only on their home turf) claims that there has been a 'wall of money' set up by the Yes side, which has generally conspired against the No side. Now, I left Ireland 11/9 and thus missed the last couple of weeks, and although it is correct that both the government and the opposition, plus a majority in the media backed the treaty, it still seemed that it was the No camp that shouted the loudest, and were the best to drive their points home with their independence, neutrality and minimum wage slogans, etc. compared to a Yes side defending a treaty which is vast and hard to read, aiming at "professionalising" the union, in addition to it being backed by one of the most unpopular governments in history (with approval ratings hovering about 10 % to 15 %)... |
| Love it when Farage was rebuked on RTE, was hilarious, I literally LOLed at him. He's an idiot. |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
And it's a resounding "yes"!Results received at the Central Count Centre for the Referendum on Treaty of Lisbon 2009
Result Summary
Full results here. |
I hope you understand, aontan (and any other Irish), that if any of you vote no, I will ban you from this website. Just a little incentive. Just to point out, YOU can't do that. We mostly live in democracies, people have the right to vote as they choose. Outside interference is not only illegal is also imprisonable. Also the British people have not yet had their vote. That will be a resounding NO. The lame duck Labour government won't keep their promise because they know they will lose. We will have to wait for the next Consevative government to keep their word and give us the vote. |
Outside interference is not only illegal is also imprisonable. Tell that to UKIP... ![]() The chances of a British referendum are very low, as before the Conservatives get into power it will most likely be ratified by every remaining member state. Pressure on Poland and Czechs to ratifySunday, 4 October 2009 10:51European Union leaders are now looking to Poland and to the Czech Republic to fast-track the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, following Ireland's endorsement. The Polish and the Czech parliaments have approved the treaty and Polish president Lech Kaczynski is expected to sign it in the coming days. However, the Czech President, Vaclav Klaus, has said he will not sign the treaty until his country's Constitutional Court rules on its validity. The president of the EU's executive European Commission, Manuel Barroso, has expressed his hope that Poland and the Czechs would ratify the treaty sooner rather than later. 'I hope that the necessary procedures for its entry into force can be completed as quickly as possible in Poland and the Czech Republic,' he said. In a further sign of pressure on Prague, the EU's Swedish presidency and Mr Barroso will meet Czech Prime Minister Jan Fischer in Brussels on Wednesday. Story from RTÉ News: |
| Merlin of Flyote: It was a joke, a spot of light hearted humour. I thought it was quite obvious. And I am very pleased that Ireland voted yes! Yay! |
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Also the British people have not yet had their vote. That will be a resounding NO. The lame duck Labour government won't keep their promise because they know they will lose. We will have to wait for the next Consevative government to keep their word and give us the vote. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/04/conservative-conference-lisbon-treaty-eu |
| The News I heard today was that the Conservatives will go ahead regardless of wether the treaty will be ratified or not. Of course the european political classes don't like the people to have their say, when they think the people will say the oposite to themselves. The French and Dutch voted against the European Constitution The writers of which said the Lisbon Treaty gave them 90% of what was in the constitution anyway. Then of course the Irish voted against it first time. But the theiving corrupt euro politicians can't have the people upsetting their gravytrain by saying no to their ideas. So they keep organising votes until the people say yes. People who vote for these corrupt and inept politicians will live to regret it. |
The News I heard today was that the Conservatives will go ahead regardless of wether the treaty will be ratified or not. There are certainly elements of the Conservative party that are pushing very hard for a commitment on this. On the other hand there are parts of the party that feel strongly that they shouldn't 'rock the boat' if the treaty has already been ratified, and changes in the EU are implemented. David Cameron certainly hasn't promised a referendum whatever the circumstances, still saying that they will wait and see. There is also a risk, if the treaty has been ratified, that a referendum on Lisbon could become one on EU membership. Something the conservative party probably doesn't want considering the deep splits the party it would reveal. Even the extreme anti-EU tory Daniel Hannan admits that they will "find ourselves in a different situation if the Polish and Czech presidents ratify before the British election." Link |
| Certainly is difficult to guess what the outcome may be. However a large group of tories would be happy to leave the EU as is, and remember that in the euro elections UKIP took second place and they are definitely for leaving the EU. The tories would like to take the UKIP vote, but they can only do that by promissing a referenda no matter what. |
Certainly is difficult to guess what the outcome may be. However a large group of tories would be happy to leave the EU as is, On the other hand, there's also a relativly large group of sensible conservatives. It would only be a vote winner if the whole party unites behind a 'no matter what' referendum, which i find highly unlikely. |
Must've been why Declan Ganley lost the European elections too! ![]() |
Certainly is difficult to guess what the outcome may be. However a large group of tories would be happy to leave the EU as is, and remember that in the euro elections UKIP took second place and they are definitely for leaving the EU. The tories would like to take the UKIP vote, but they can only do that by promissing a referenda no matter what. The Conservatives will not risk it. European nations will call their bluff and will prevent any change to membership. The result will be a vote on British membership and like the last one, people will vote to stay in the EU. Such debate would also end a tory government, the divisions caused massive instability in the last tory government. It will happen again. |
THE IMPERIAL ATLANTEAN EMPIRE Trixie Nominated City Journal 2007 & 2008 Incredibly Proud Memberstate of the SimCityJournalUnion The largest, oldest and most creative in the SC4 Sphere |
Certainly is difficult to guess what the outcome may be. However a large group of tories would be happy to leave the EU as is, and remember that in the euro elections UKIP took second place and they are definitely for leaving the EU. The tories would like to take the UKIP vote, but they can only do that by promissing a referenda no matter what. The Conservatives will not risk it. European nations will call their bluff and will prevent any change to membership. The result will be a vote on British membership and like the last one, people will vote to stay in the EU. Such debate would also end a tory government, the divisions caused massive instability in the last tory government. It will happen again. British people have never voted on membership of the EU. They did once vote on membership of the Common Market, but that is something entirely different. Considering the euro elections it would seem that most British, or at least most English people would be happy to leave the EU as is. As for an end of the tory party, ((it's not a government yet) but thanks for the vote of confidence), I doubt it, there are far more conservative eurosceptics than supporters and promising a referenda no matter what may bring in some of the UKIP vote, whilst not doing so risks losing voters to UKIP. Also the EU was not the primary cause of instability in the previous tory administration, there were other factors, not least of which was the introduction of the Poll Tax. Actually Margaret Thatcher was well respected for her handling of the EU amongst many in England. |
| I would vote yes, since from what I've seen of it, it would simplify the quite-complicated functions and agencies of the EU. |
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